Smps transformer design with copper foil/strip HELP PLEASEEE

Hi guys first i want to tell that my english is not good because i'm from itay :)

my problem is calculating transformer details (primary and secondry turns)

i'm using this circuit:reg60v.jpg

HERE ARE THE PICTURES OF WAVEFORMS:

ON GATE DRIVER MOSFET:

GATE DRIVER MIN DUTY.jpg GATE DRIVER 35% DUTY.jpg

ON IGBT LOW SIDE GATE:

LOW SIDE IGBT GATE GATE.jpg LOW SIDE IGBT GATE MIN DUTY.jpg


NPUT VOLTAGE IS 230Vac
OUTPUT VOLTAGE IS 3Vdc TO 60Vdc
OUTPUT CURRENT IS: 60A MAX

i ha ve EE 70/33/32 CORE

http://www.epcos.com/inf/80/db/fer_07/e_70_33_32.pdf

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE HELP TO CALCULATING WINDING DETAIL WITH COPPER FOIL
THANKS IN ADVANCE ;)
 

MicrosiM

Administrator
Staff member
Can you tell me what is the voltage across the primary of the transformer?

Running frequency?


regards
 
Thank you sir for answering :)

on running frequency i want your advise but for now it is 50khz

input voltage is 230vac and no pfc

and it is 2 switch forword

and one another thing do you have any advis on schematic if it is ok?

Thanks again sir
 

KX36

New member
At a quick glance, there are some oddities you might want to look at.

1. Your gate drive transformer curcuit looks excessively complex. I don't see why you're not just driving the GDT directly from the output of the UC3845 through a coupling capacitor. It has a totem pole output so can deliver some power through the GDT to the IGBT gates. If you need more peak current to the gates, you can add an external totem pole or buffer IC. A DC recovery circuit in the secondary of the GDT should be considered for the 2 switch forward converter with a variable duty cycle as otherwise the gate voltage varies with duty cycle, some of the rest of that circuitry is probably unnecessary. If you need more drive voltage, remove ZD1. It's kind of unnecessary anyway, the IC can run off 17V.

2. I haven't verified your compensation network, although the type of compensation looks correct. It's better to have R11 variable and P1 fixed for stability since P1 is in the AC feedback loop and R11 isn't (sort of).

3. I'm not particularly comfortable with the 100k resistor - 1uF capacitor - LED circuit hanging off the compensation pin. Confirm how that affects stability.

Transformer calculation is pretty much the same whether you use wire or foil for the winding, you work out your maximum flux density for a given core loss or saturation, use the core geometries to find the minimum number of turns etc, the cross section of copper you need in a winding for the current through it and the maximum thickness of the winding for skin and proximity effects, just like with wire. Then use that to find the width of copper you need rather than the number of strands of wire. The only added complexity is trying to connect the foil to the former pins or PCB.
 
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KX36

New member
One more thing, I haven't seen you specify the output power or current, but it looks to be quite a high current design, what with the foil windings, IGBTs, paralleled secondary rectifiers, 16A input rectifier. How much power are you expecting to put out and considering this, is the 2-switch forward converter a viable topology? I wouldn't use it above about 400W. The single quadrant transoformer usage and transformer reset is too lossy and the maximum duty cycle of 50% means much higher peak currents than other topologies.
 
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One more thing, I haven't seen you specify the output power or current, but it looks to be quite a high current design, what with the foil windings, IGBTs, paralleled secondary rectifiers, 16A input rectifier. How much power are you expecting to put out and considering this, is the 2-switch forward converter a viable topology? I wouldn't use it above about 400W. The single quadrant transoformer usage and transformer reset is too lossy and the maximum duty cycle of 50% means much higher peak currents than other topologies.

hello sir thanks for your advises :)

i'm expecting 3 to 60 Volt and up to 40 A

what do you think if it worth it? thanks
 

KX36

New member
I think 2400W is a hell of a lot of power, far too much for a forward converter. If I was doing it with hard switching, it would be at least a full bridge topology, but there have been similar power levels on other projects on this site using half bridge using IGBTs (unregulated). Some resonant topology may be possible such as LLC (typically used for high efficiency under 1kW, but we've seen them in multi-kW welders), although they aren't simple to design and I don't know how well they'd cope with the variable output voltage and current.
 
i think 2400w is a hell of a lot of power, far too much for a forward converter. If i was doing it with hard switching, it would be at least a full bridge topology, but there have been similar power levels on other projects on this site using half bridge using igbts (unregulated). Some resonant topology may be possible such as llc (typically used for high efficiency under 1kw, but we've seen them in multi-kw welders), although they aren't simple to design and i don't know how well they'd cope with the variable output voltage and current.

hello kx36 what do you think about this?
mio.jpg
 

KX36

New member
The TL494 it looks like you're using while at first glance seems OK for half bridge as it's voltage mode control, the part itself is obsolete and not recommended for new designs. It's a general purpose PWM IC rather than a SMPS IC and so it does things strange ways.

IIRC, the compensation of the on board error amplifier doesn't work as expected. It's kind of backwards, so if you look at your typical type III opamp compensation with the voltage divider from output to IN- with RC across the top resistor and RC from the FB pin to IN- and a reference voltage on the IN+ formed by a voltage divider down from the internal 5V reference. In the TL494 however, you have to have the reference to the IN- pin and Vout to the IN+ pin, which means the compnesation is on the reference side of it rather than the Vout side. So, the series RC from Vout to IN+ should be from Vref to IN-.

I wouldn't expect to see the electrolytic capacitor on the FB pin, don't know what it's doing, can't imagine it help stability.

Typically with a pot to adjust the output voltage, you'd want it out of the AC feedback loop so that it doesn't affect stability, which means making it the lower resistor of a voltage divider. You also would typically want to set it up so that the input voltage to the error amplifier doesn't go up and down but rather stays in the linear region. The error amplifiers in SMPS chips are very primative opamps and won't behave well near their rails. You have 2 pots to set the voltage. I can't see really how one is a set point and one is a set limit like they're labelled. If it's a regulated power supply you should only need one pot and possibly a resistor or 2 in series with it to set its minimum/maximum position.

The TL494 has 2 error amps OR'd together, and it's very tempting to set one up for voltage limiting and one for current limiting, but this will behave very poorly. the IC has no internal latching, so current limting will result in many switching transitions within a single switching period. i.e. high frequency oscillation dramatically increasing switching loss. Also, the half bridge topology is unsuitable for current mode control which is essentially what you're trying to implement by doing this. The bus voltage between the capacitor divider will be pulled to one of its rails by positive feedback and the transformer will saturate. Doesn't really matter if you're regulating the primary current or the output inductor current in this regard, although there is inherently less protection when you have no current limiting on the primary.

For a half bridge, the minimum IC I'd recommend is a SG3525 or equivalent (I like UC2525A). It can be interfaced directly with a gate drive transformer or hi/lo gate driver IC, has a more textbook design and incorperates features such as latching, UVLO, totem pole outputs, soft start etc, all of which are really required of a proper SMPS.
 
The TL494 it looks like you're using while at first glance seems OK for half bridge as it's voltage mode control, the part itself is obsolete and not recommended for new designs. It's a general purpose PWM IC rather than a SMPS IC and so it does things strange ways.

IIRC, the compensation of the on board error amplifier doesn't work as expected. It's kind of backwards, so if you look at your typical type III opamp compensation with the voltage divider from output to IN- with RC across the top resistor and RC from the FB pin to IN- and a reference voltage on the IN+ formed by a voltage divider down from the internal 5V reference. In the TL494 however, you have to have the reference to the IN- pin and Vout to the IN+ pin, which means the compnesation is on the reference side of it rather than the Vout side. So, the series RC from Vout to IN+ should be from Vref to IN-.

I wouldn't expect to see the electrolytic capacitor on the FB pin, don't know what it's doing, can't imagine it help stability.

Typically with a pot to adjust the output voltage, you'd want it out of the AC feedback loop so that it doesn't affect stability, which means making it the lower resistor of a voltage divider. You also would typically want to set it up so that the input voltage to the error amplifier doesn't go up and down but rather stays in the linear region. The error amplifiers in SMPS chips are very primative opamps and won't behave well near their rails. You have 2 pots to set the voltage. I can't see really how one is a set point and one is a set limit like they're labelled. If it's a regulated power supply you should only need one pot and possibly a resistor or 2 in series with it to set its minimum/maximum position.

The TL494 has 2 error amps OR'd together, and it's very tempting to set one up for voltage limiting and one for current limiting, but this will behave very poorly. the IC has no internal latching, so current limting will result in many switching transitions within a single switching period. i.e. high frequency oscillation dramatically increasing switching loss. Also, the half bridge topology is unsuitable for current mode control which is essentially what you're trying to implement by doing this. The bus voltage between the capacitor divider will be pulled to one of its rails by positive feedback and the transformer will saturate. Doesn't really matter if you're regulating the primary current or the output inductor current in this regard, although there is inherently less protection when you have no current limiting on the primary.

For a half bridge, the minimum IC I'd recommend is a SG3525 or equivalent (I like UC2525A). It can be interfaced directly with a gate drive transformer or hi/lo gate driver IC, has a more textbook design and incorperates features such as latching, UVLO, totem pole outputs, soft start etc, all of which are really required of a proper SMPS.


HII KX36 THANKS FOR HELPING YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE THAT GIVING ME ADVICES THANKS AGAIN :)

FOR NOW I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH SG3525 CAN YOU PLEASE HELP ME MAKING A VOLTAGE REGULATED CIRCUIT ??

in the meantime I'M ATTACING SIMULATED AND IMPROVED DESIGN WITH TL494 WILL YOU PLEASE CHECK?

ff.jpg

MANY REGARDS
 

sharif

New member
hello everyone ,,,i m going to design a 12v 3A smps....can anybody help me,,,,about transformer winding design calculation,,,,,,,
 
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