Scale able class D 1250W UCD style and Non-UCD style - PCB Ready. Tested.

Dzony_988

New member
Look, how i get it, Azmi use ejtagle pcb (I posted 20 minutes ago) and on this pcb Q3 is rotated for 180 deegres.. Glo's amp didnt work because he folowed original schematic and made his own pcb but he found mestake and Azmy said that he didnt see that on schematic... Now, open the first pdf (ucd version) and see position of that transistor and open the second pdf and see the same, colector-emitter position are different

I think this is mestake on schematic, no defference between ucd and non ucd version because that part split signlas for Lin and Hin and have to be the same, because only difference between ucd and non ucd version is that what is before IR2110 (comparator or opamp with different feedback conection)

One more difference is Ejtagle pcb file with his schematic (again colector-emitter of that transistor are not the same on his pcb and his schematic, please look on atached files)

I think the best is that Azmi see his pcb and tell us what is corect
 

Attachments

  • IR2110 non UCD.pdf
    46.2 KB · Views: 534
  • IR2110 UCD.pdf
    1.6 MB · Views: 767
  • Ejtagle pcb.pdf
    73.8 KB · Views: 545

Dzony_988

New member
Scehmatic is posted in post #162, that you have it too (IR2110 non UCD.pdf)

Everuthing is the same like on scehmatic, but that transistor isnt.... How I sad before, i think its mestake with scehamtic only, and we have to wait Azmi to see his pcb and tell us what to do :)
 
Last edited:

Dzony_988

New member
Yes, relay protection that you post is my protection and its ok... Everything is stabile, very fast... You have temp protect, turn on with delay and momentaly turning of of relay when you shut down (for that is importatnt AC conection, form main trafo ony of secondaries)

But I notice that you have wrong calculation for some components but its ok it work now how it is but this is corect calculation....

-If u use 24V relay of 1K resistion of coil, you can use 2.2K on active led..
-20mA is curent for LM393 and calculation for resistor from main Ucc+ supplay is (Ucc-15V) / 20mA (on your schematic R55)
-Resistor foe AC conection, after 1N4007 and cap: Ucc+ / 0.5mA (on your scehmatic R45)
-Resistor for relay: (Ucc - 24) / 25mA

All values that you got it are in Kohms and disipation is: Voltage drop * curent in mA = mW

I use BC337 not 2N5551 and for raley I use BC639 not BD140... Bc639 has current max 1A, and wor relay its need only 30mA max, save your space and use BC...

Whit my amp I plan to use one protection for two chanles and twoo relays... Both outs from amps are "mixed" with 100k and go to protection and both relays are in pararlell for both amps

About overcurent protect I dont know, I use much more simple with mpsa42 and NE555 without optos and direct conect to sd pin
 

norazmi

diysmps Senior Member
ejtagle pcb is correct, like i said the wrong placement in schematic only, and the different only with feedback, ucd have feedback after LC filter which non-ucd is before the LC filter. What Dzony mention is correct.
 

paskal

New member
hi dzony, can you share the schematics and pcb file here? or PM me directly if you don't wanna release it to the public.
i'm gonna try and build your non-ucd project and post the results here. i'm looking for a better non-ucd project now that my simple class d is successful. i could try and redraw according to your schematic and pcb but that will take quite some time to finish.
 

Dzony_988

New member
Hi Paskal... I'll share my pcb, its not a problem... But you will have problems with my pcb, are you shure that you wanna my pcb? :D

Problem is that I'm obsessed with small dimension and everything I put it close on small space :), I dont know why but thats maybe some psychologically problem :D

In atachment you have a PCB components, PCB artwork (redy to print), RealWorld and Schematic... Schematic of protection you have in stewin post and that schematic I use on my board...

That board is now set for full bridge for high power, You use SPK+ and SPK- to conect your speaker but you can easy change mode to stereo or paralell (two amps are on that board) than SPK+ is + for first chanel and GND is -, and SPK - is + for second chanel and GND is - . You only have to find track who is between of two resistors 10K (goes from pin 7 of TL072 to 10K who is under the board, under the chip, then goes to another 10k who goes to pin 2 ), only cut that track. Now conection for second chanel is "free" side of 10k resistor who goes on pin 2 of TL072. If you conect to input you have parallel mod if you conect to second input, you have stereo mode...

Now guide about building amp with my pcb..

-Blue tracks are gnd and I change the color that I can menage components
-All components with green pads are under the board, you put it true the holes but under und cut wires that comes out on front side but cut it all to close to front side of board.

-Jumpers are on top ofcourse, and isnt metter color (green or blue). Different color is that you can see better wher the jumepr is :D
I suggest you that you first soldering the jumpers, and green components than otger component, thats how you can save your nervs with my design

-All calculations for components are on right side of PCB components and Artwork, you can not mestake if you falow formulas..

-If you look closely on that board you can use TO247 transistors but you can use TO220 trasnsitors too.. For that transistors ofcourse you have to use isolators when you put them on heatsink, but VERY IMPORTANT is then you put TIP41c on heatsink you not use islotaors because case of TIP41(his colector) with heatsink is conection for GND for all components around IR2110 and TL074. If you look closely, main GND with screw nut goes to heatsink and heatsink is one BIG GND who with TIP41 provide gnd for all others components.. Its good because Heatsink on GND help to reduce parasit oscilations aronud transitors, because big case of transitors like TO247 has bigger area then TO220 and much more sensitive on parasit osilations.

-Dimension of heatsink and his ticknes you can measure when you print all on paper and use holes for srew nut to fix it on pcb..

-FB1 goes to FB1 and FB2 goes to FB2

-Conectors for led indicators, two of them (two protections) has 6 pin. This is for 3 leds. If you split that conector on 3 you will have 3 conectors with 2 pins. Every left one pin is + of LED

-Conector for second protection (Prot 2 conector) for "Active" led have to be short with conector under the reley (red one), you only falow the diagram on right side of pcb and you will figured out how to conect them (mark at the corner of conector)

-Temp Sensor is KTY81-122 and it is in TO92 case with 2 legs (without central), with wires conect them on conector on pcb and put sensor on heatsing

-Output Coil that you can use (for dimension) is T106-2, for other coils you have to use wires because its not enough space between heatsink and relays

-Leds (yelow and red) on pcb is only for power supplays when you use on example SMPS and if SMPS fail and thats led are turned off, that mean is smps fail, Rx for them is (Ucc-3V)/10mA

-Carefully calculate power disipations of resistors, you have formulas and all zeners have to be 1.3W, because now one resistor powered up two relays (currnet is double) and one resistor powered up two protestions (curent is double). All that is include in formulas for calculation but be carefull with power disipation of resistor especialy with Rrelays, Rprot (if you dont whant to calculate, the best is that both resistors be 5W)

- I sugest you to build chip vu meter with AN6884 and calibrated to chow you when amp goes to true clip. On example you build amp with +-50V. Output RMS signal maximum before clip is 50V / 1.41 = 36V ~
Now, turn on your amp and play from computer 1KHz signal or any constant signal... Increase volume until you have 34VAC on your multimeter (conected on SPK+ and gnd)
When you have 34V signal, simply calibrate trim pot on your vu meter that last red led is turn on that volume of signal. Every time when you play music and some peak of signal reach that point, led will turn on and show point little before clip. Its very important because class D amps when goes to clip actually stop to oscilate and all power and curent are splitet on only two transistors and they cant hold that power without his PULSE mode...

Thats all that I remeber, if you something dont understand , just ask me
 

Attachments

  • 1. Non UcD amp IR2110 TL074 - SCHEMATIC.pdf
    46.2 KB · Views: 463
  • 2.NonUcD IR2110 TL074 - Components.pdf
    108.9 KB · Views: 394
  • 3.Non UcD amp IR2110 TL074 - PCB Artwork.pdf
    88.3 KB · Views: 397
  • 4. Non UcD amp IR2110 TL074 - REAL WORLD.pdf
    910.3 KB · Views: 495
Last edited:

Dzony_988

New member
I forgat.. On board you have AC conector... Just conect with any of two secondaries on your trasnformer.. Its have to be AC voltage not DC, and whach out on jumeprs for POWER rails to transistors. On it you have full power voltage and heatsink is on top of them and he is on GND. Use silicon isolators between them and heatsink or put them under the borad...

Chack board one more time with schematic.. I dont have time right now to chack all but I belive that everything is allright...

Regards, Nikola
 

stewin

Member
here is my corrected schema what i intend to use. i am kind of like maxxx power :D:D. i have used totem pole to drive the multiple fets. normal power i'll use irf640 but maxxx power i'll use irfb4227 -) -)

also guys by GOD'S grace and favour i found irfb4229 and irfb4227 in my country, and bought 2 pairs irfb4227 because they are currently the best in class d amps applications according to forums .





http://forcedgifting.com/?ref=stewin
 

Attachments

  • DSC01484.jpg
    DSC01484.jpg
    155.7 KB · Views: 100
  • DSC01483.jpg
    DSC01483.jpg
    151.2 KB · Views: 57
  • DSC01480.jpg
    DSC01480.jpg
    153.8 KB · Views: 50
  • scalable class d single with protect2 and relay muting and temp sensor schematic.pdf
    61.9 KB · Views: 454

paskal

New member
hi there dzony, i meant the program files in which you saved the schematics and drew the pcb.
i need to change some of the components according to the parts that i have in my parts bin. that way i can save time from ordering/looking for new parts to finish the pcb. some parts like connectors, relay, speaker connector i need to change.

i would be much appreciated if you could share the original pcb file. my email is paskal@gmail.com
and don't worry if there's a problem with the pcb artwork, we'll try and correct it together with the guys from this forum.
 

Dzony_988

New member
Stewin, great job, sometimes maybe I'll use your totem pole for driving more transistors.... One corection please, R48 on protection have to be 47R not 47K. This is mestake one year ago from diyaudio :D
Stewin, look this overcurent protection, what do you think, in simulator work fine, but if you have time, try it and tell me your expiriance...

Calaculation for Rshunt if I didnt mestake anywhere is:

Rshunt = Voltage drop / (I out)

Iout = Uout /Rload
Iout = (Ucc / sqrt2) / 2Rload - - two power rails thats whay R is double
Iout = Ucc / 2*sgrt2*Rload

Rshunt = 0.7 / ( Ucc / 2*sgrt2*Rload)
Rshunt = (1.4*Rload*sqrt2) / Ucc

and finally

Rshunt = 2Rload / Ucc

Whit that calculation everuthing is allright... On example +-50V on 2 ohms load... ~36V / 2 ohms = 18A (9A per rail)

I need 0.08ohms shunt resistor and protection will start in simulator when 10A current go true Shunt resistor

Paskal, in atachment you have zip file and in it .pcb file, program is PCB Wizard
 

Attachments

  • overcurent protection.jpg
    overcurent protection.jpg
    117.9 KB · Views: 326
  • Non UcD amp IR2110 TL074 - PCB WIZARD file.rar
    39.8 KB · Views: 460

paskal

New member
dzony, i've downloaded the file and pcb wizard. it opened successfully and i've gone through the tutorial. but the routing technique is very different from my usual pcb drawing program (diptrace). i'm having a hard time to change the relay and rerouting the board.


could you help me change the two DPDT relay into SPDT relays? i don't keep any DPDT relay as they're very expensive here, but i do have lots of 24v SPDT relay in my parts bin.

once the relay is changed i could start etching and populating the board. i have most of the parts in my stock. also bought some new 25-0-25-0, 35-0-35-0 and 45-0-45-0 500VA toroid to power the test modules
 

norazmi

diysmps Senior Member
Dzony , in theory it might be right with that calculation, but in real life it may not. You need to test it in real life if the mosfet will survive when its happen, im trying to build one but not yet tested, maybe next week i`ll do.
 

Dzony_988

New member
To paskal:

Its very hard now to change Relay because its all very tite and close, but I'll try... If I do that, your output coil have to be external from amp board true the wires, because I have to move relays down, closer to heatsink...

To Azmi, I must find on diyaudio one protection, with 10mohms resistion in serial with speaker... very fest and safe (seas autor), OpAMP and others to triger the protection... and its very important because its very fast, direst before speaker... U maybe know what I talking about...
 

Dzony_988

New member
Paskal, draw me that relay from bottom and draw me simbols where is the coil and wher is contact when relay is off and where is the contact when raley is on... I'd never use that before..
 

stewin

Member
hi guys need help. just finished my amp non ucd but it is distorting.
>>>the voltage i am using is +/-33vlts 800ma
>>>i have changed totem pole bjts to bc337 and bc327
>>>also changed tl074 with tl084 problem still the same . :(

my out puts i used irf540 two pairs
output inductor is ee core from pc power supply i used 18 turns .

pls check if my schema is o.k;ww:;ww:
 

Attachments

  • scalable class d single without protect schematic.pdf
    38.6 KB · Views: 431
  • scalable class d single without protect artwork.pdf
    2 MB · Views: 672
  • scalable class d single without protect components full.pdf
    33.6 KB · Views: 381
  • scalable class d single without protect.JPG
    scalable class d single without protect.JPG
    120.5 KB · Views: 301
Top